Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

This forum is nearly identical to the previous forum. The difference? Discussions about comedy from the SOUND era.
Gary Johnson
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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Gary Johnson » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:59 pm

Richard, it's very odd that you seem to know my activities over on FB because I cause just as much trouble over there as I do here....

Richard M Roberts
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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Richard M Roberts » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:30 pm

Gary Johnson wrote:Richard, it's very odd that you seem to know my activities over on FB because I cause just as much trouble over there as I do here....


You always try to be a troublemaker wherever you go, that's why it fun to give you a taste of your own medicine and see how you like it.

But its as much a waste of time trying to cause trouble on Facebook as it is on somewhere like Nitratevile, no one really wants to learn anything at either place.


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Gary Johnson
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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Gary Johnson » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:51 pm

Well then I suggest that we go over there together someday. You use an alias, such as William Everson Guy, I'll go as myself and the two of us create a massive argument over the most mundane thing.......like funniest character - Heckle or Jeckle?

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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Richard M Roberts » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:25 pm

Gary Johnson wrote:Well then I suggest that we go over there together someday. You use an alias, such as William Everson Guy, I'll go as myself and the two of us create a massive argument over the most mundane thing.......like funniest character - Heckle or Jeckle?



No thank you, the last thing Facebook needs is more pointless blather.

Interesting, no one took on the Abbott and Costello thread from the two Greenbriar Discussions.

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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Gary Johnson » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:09 am

I had planned to talk A&C but we all got rather caught up with Stan & Babe at FOX and I found I had lost my mind.

The one thing that did jump out at me was when you confessed that you never really cared for Costello. I've never heard you mention that before. And that seemed to open the door for everyone over there to chose sides who they liked -- Bud or Lou. I've never considered them as two individuals in which one could be replaced like a piece of machinery. They were one entity. There's no choosing. They were the ultimate act. Those radio programs during the war when Lou is practically on his death bed and Bud performs with ringers..........why did they bother? Just cancel the show that night. And Lou on his own is like a sedate Bob Hope movie. THE TIME OF THEIR LIVES spends so much time keeping the team separate that the only comedy that gets created is situational. And that is not Lou's forte.

So between that and all of the angst over slapping.........slapping? Now that's a deterrent to watching comedy? Have they never heard of the Three Stooges? Then I guess McElwee's hypothesis that Bud & Lou may have lost their appeal with film fans is regrettably true.

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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Joe Migliore » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:53 am

As a child, I had regular exposure to Abbott & Costello; WPIX had the whole Universal package, and would run one every Sunday morning. I loved them all, but as I discovered more classic comedies (Stan & Babe, Bill Fields, and The Marx Bros.), my opinion of Lou Costello's character waned. Bud Abbott, however, has only gotten stronger with age; I can see how deftly he was holding it all together. Had Joe Besser replaced Lou, as was apparently briefly considered, I think it would have been easier than replacing Shemp Howard.

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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Richard M Roberts » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:21 am

We actually ran HOLD THAT GHOST again last week after discussing it on Greenbriar, and I hate to say it hasn't aged as well in my memory as I had recalled, and the problem was simply-----Lou Costello. I had forgotten how much he just yells non-stop in so much of the haunted house section of the film. He's all energy, no focus, and he gets tiring. Everything else is fine, the Ted Lewis and Andrews Sisters numbers, Bud Abbott, Joan Davis, the budget and atmosphere of the picture are top-notch, but Costello just wore on me. The scare-comedy bits do work better when redone in ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN because Costello frankly makes less noise while doing them.

I also had to wonder at the folk in the Greenbriar comments who praised Costello's pratfall abilities, he takes falls yes, but they always seem to be more just driven by energy than any agility on his part, to the point where they make me wince more than laugh. Keaton took falls that could amaze and amuse, as well as confound one in their poetic and athletic design, Costello just takes falls---hard. And when one takes Costello's health into consideration as time went on, they cause me more concern than laughter. I especially remember watching him on those live Colgate Comedy Hours, knocking himself out and always sweating profusely, and just thinking here's a man who's had rheumatic fever, he's just another heart attack waiting to happen.

Like I've said before, I do like Abbott and Costello, but I have never been able to lift that admiration above the second tier of pretty good comedians, and historically, they're arrival on the scene always indicates to me the moment when the Golden Age of Comedy began to die. Theirs is always an industrial humor, sometimes successful in it's precision, but soulless and mechanical in the extreme, and it never rose above that.


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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Rob Farr » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:36 am

To me the best way to present A&C to an audience is to show a Colgate Comedy Hour or one of the TV shows (first season only please). Interestingly according to a new biography titled, The Gag Man: Clyde Bruckman and the Birth of Film Comedy by Matthew Dessem, Bruckman was brought in at the end of Season One to "fix" the series and give it more structure. TV reviewers were apparently offended at the low-class burlesque atmosphere that Season One reeked of. I will post a review of the Bruckman book after I finish reading it, but other than the ridiculous title, it seems like a good'n.
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Re: Greenbriar Comedy Team Discussions

Postby Gary Johnson » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:57 pm

If I were to present A&B to an audience I would start at the beginning. ONE NIGHT IN THE TROPICS, BUCK PRIVATES and then plow right on through the war right up to V-Day. They were such a product of their time that they need to be showcased that way. The 1940's had brash radio comedians, brash music, brash cartoons, brash hats..... It's easy to see how Bud & Lou fit right in. I can watch any of their first dozen or so flicks that they cranked out at an alarmingly fast rate and rarely bat a critical eye. The music is generally good, the Boys have high energy and their material comes off as fresh. It's their post-war films when I become more subjective.

The glow seems to come off them rather quickly. By the time of their TV appearances they are considered 'old-time comedians'. What happened? (We know what happened....illness, death, taxes....) They were so vibrant a mere 5 years early. THE NOOSE HANGS HIGH is practically a nostalgia tour for The Boys, in the way that they cram so many of their memorable routines into it's short running time (It's also a fine comedy). It didn't help matters that Martin & Lewis were just around the corner about to steal the limelight, in the same manner that A&C did to L&H.

Everyone's been voicing what they don't like about Lou as a performer. I'll tell you what I love about him -- his quick wit. For a comedian known for his patter routines, 'Who's on First' or "Two Tens for a Five, I like him best when he goes off script. He has a constant line of chatter in these films, whether it's directed towards Abbott or just some random passerby. When he's being smacked around he cries and yells and throws out ad libs. Even when a line is not particularly hilarious, it can still get a laugh because of Costello's voice inflections. It can suddenly rise up two octaves so only dogs can hear him. He is loud, I admit, but it's what I love about their films. I like comedic howls and screams. Jerry Lewis, The Stooges and L&H all had patented yells and howls they would make when being chased or falling off 3 story buildings. Even when the stunt is patented phoney with stuffed dummies replacing the real thing, the effect is still funny thanks to the soundtrack. And Lou has a great comedic yell.

As for HOLD THAT GHOST, I only have one gripe -- Ted Lewis. The Schmaltz King. I wish Lou had broken his clarinet over his top-hatted head.


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